What do UK universities think of students who re-sit one or more of their subjects?

In theory, they ought not to worry about resits at all, as that is very much the culture in A levels, though there of course it is generally only modules that are re-sat. There follow below responses from several ‘top’ UK universities, for which I am indebted to Michal Lowe from Manchester GS.  My guess is that the lower a university is down the rankings the less it will worry about re-takes.

Warwick

The University of Warwick does not have a policy against candidates resitting the International Baccalaureate. However, due to the strong competition for places any candidate who was to resit their examination would need strong support/evidence from their school as to why the resit was necessary.

Undergraduate Admissions Team, Student Admissions and Recruitment Office

Liverpool

We accept applications from students who are re-taking their examinations.· However, applicants should note that any offer they may receive may be required to obtain higher grades than those quoted as 'typical' requirements in the prospectus and that some high-demand courses may place restrictions on such applications.··

Head of UK/EU Recruitment, Student Recruitment and Admissions Office, The University of Liverpool

St Andrews

As you know the University of St Andrews is a relatively small institution enjoying a global reputation for academic excellence and applications to the University have increased dramatically in recent years in line with our league table rankings. Our asking rates are high, but every year the proportion of applicants already holding, or predicted to obtain grades higher than our asking rates increases. These factors combine to make St Andrews one of the UK's most competitive universities for entrance.

I can guarantee that academic Admissions Officers in the relevant School(s) of the University will read all applications with extreme care, and evaluate them alongside other applications we receive. However, we look most favourably on those applicants that have met (or are predicted to meet) the minimum likely requirements for the degree programme to which they have applied in the first sitting of their examinations. Although applicants may re re-apply in the following year with their resits completed, it is unlikely that they will be offered a place.

If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact the Admissions team again.

Birmingham

Further to our telephone conversation today, I can confirm that the University of Birmingham are happy to consider applicants who have taken re-sits.

Admissions Officer - College of Arts and Law, Admissions, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston

The answer to this is ‘no’ as the tariff seems a fair reflection of the amount and level of work that go into a student’s DP course. However, the more competitive universities argue,

with a certain amount of justification, that using the tariff does not compare like with like. They point out that the usual comparison is between six subjects and the core for the IB Diploma, when for A levels it is often for only three subjects, when a student may be taking or have taken AS levels, the Extended project, additional GCSEs and so on

Does it matter?

The answer is, again, ‘no’.

Why not?

There are two compensations. First, the DP’s points scoring system allows universities to pitch their offers exactly where they want to. This means that DP students get more offers than A level students, so their chance of getting a place on the course they are most interested in is increased. Second, it is generally accepted that the DP is a better general preparation for university than A levels, so DP students will do better at university.

Feedback from existing schools is that they are happy with the offers that their DP students receive from UK universities.

Question: I have been using the Times of London's "University League Table" as a guide to evaluate UK schools. I assume it is a good source, but thought it would be worth checking with someone who knows the UK university system (i.e. you). So, is there another source that would be better for identifying top (and not top) universities? Also, the Times League Table only identifies about 120 universities. Are they choosing only the top set of schools (as in -- here are our top 120 out of 500) or is that the total number of universities in the UK? Thanks, DPC La Manche School

Answer: Hi DPC, The Times is fine. The Guardian and the Independent also have guides online. UCAS lists some 305 HEIs (Higher Education Institutions in the UK). Of these, about 110 are the familiar universities; another 20 or 30 are specialist institutions - Music, agriculture etc. The rest are mostly Tertiary Colleges which offer Foundation Courses or a limited range of degree courses which are validate by the universities. These are not without merit but are limited. (Google ‘Leeds City College’ if you want an example.)

‘What is it best to tell my teachers with regard to UCAS predicted grades? Is there a good strategy that will help to get offers for my students?’

In general, both schools and universities tell me that predicted grades must be realistically optimistic, but not in any way over-inflated.

It is also a problem that students are doing 6 subjects and are unlikely to achieve their best possible grade in all of them.

There are a number of reasons why schools should be cautious with their predicted grades.

It does not help a student to receive an offer or offers that he or she is never going to achieve.
Some offers are based on predicted grades – so excessive predictions lead to excessive offers!
Universities hate over-prediction. In my recent visit to Cambridge they put it on the agenda. I told them that it was equally a concern of mine as over-prediction helps no one, not the student, not the university, nor the school. I asked them to tell me in confidence if they were concerned about any school or schools, because I would speak discreetly to them

The UCAS process – a one page summary

Nick Lee, University Liaison Officer – February 2010

The UK university application process is confusing for a number of reasons, not least because whilst all applications are made through UCAS, a central body, the decisions about which applications are successful are incredibly decentralised, sometimes being made by central university admissions departments, sometime by individual course admissions tutors who may be admitting only half a dozen students each year.

The UCAS process:

This now operates entirely online.
Students generally apply in the academic year before their university course is due to start. They must sign up with UCAS.
They will probably have done research such as looking at information on the UCAS and university websites, and visiting Higher Education Fairs and University Open Days.
They apply for 5 courses for the same or related subjects, usually at 5 different universities. The best strategy is to choose a range of universities so that several ‘offers’ (see below) are received.
In their application students also record their previous qualifications such as MYP or GCSEs (if they have them) and make a Personal Statement in which they state their own interest in the course(s) applied for, any relevant experience, and a bit about their own interests and activities.
The school predicts what grades the student is likely to achieve, and writes a Reference stating their suitability (or not) for the course(s) applied for.
Application for Oxford, Cambridge, and medicine, dentistry and veterinary science must be made by October 15th.
All other applications must be made by January 15th.
In their own time, universities consider applications and either reject students or make conditional ‘offers’ to them. For example, this could be: 40 points and 7, 7, 6 at HL (not unusual for Oxford or Cambridge); or 32 points with a total of 16 points at HL; or 24 points (Diploma pass), etc. Where appropriate, UK universities will require certain grades at HL in the subject(s) that the student will study at university. For example, a student for English literature will need a good grade in English A1 at HL; a student for Medicine will need good grades in Biology and Chemistry HL, and so on.
These offers have to be made by 1 May.
Students then state that they will ‘hold’ two of their offers. One, the higher one, and by implication the offer from a more selective and therefore more prestigious university, is held as their ‘firm’ offer. The second, a lower one, is held as an ‘insurance’ offer, in case the student does not make the grades required for the firm offer.
Some students who only do IB Certificates may be made offers, especially at the less selective universities.
When the IB results are issued on 6th July, students will know whether they have achieved their firm offer. If they have, they can relax, and wait for further information from the university.
If they have not achieved their firm offer, they may choose to take up their insurance offer, or they may negotiate with the university which made the firm offer.
Some final decisions are not made until the end of August, as universities, or to a lesser degree students, may wait until the English A level results have been released

31 March 2010

Dr Jane Austen
Admissions Tutor
Department of English and Comparative Literature,
Notional University

Dear Dr Austen,

I am writing with regard to the offer to read English Literature in October 2010 which you have made to one of my students, Julie Smile.

Julie is taking four International Baccalaureate Certificates (HL English and World Literature, HL Art, HL Psychology and SL Spanish) rather than the full Diploma. This is of course the first year in which IB Certificates have been part of the UCAS tariff system.

Julie was very pleased to receive your offer - and so was I, since I recommended English at Goldsmiths to her. But I feel that the offer you have made is not commensurate with what you would have offered if she had been an A Level student. It seems a little unfair to me.

Julie has been asked to achieve 24 IB points overall with a 7 in English.

I notice from your website that your normal IB offer is 666 at HL; at A Level you ask for ABB. The UCAS tariff weights a HL IB Certificate grade 7 at 130, but an A at A Level at 120. The UCAS tariff weights a 6 on an HL IB Certificate at 110, but a B at A Level at 100. Even on this measure you are asking Katie to achieve considerably more than you are asking from an A Level student.

Furthermore, a 7 at HL IB English and World Literature is much more difficult to achieve than an A at English Literature A Level. Only 2% of all candidates worldwide achieved a 7 in HL Literature in May 2009 (http://www.ibo.org/facts/statbulletin/dpstats/). The figure, for example, for AQA ‘B’ A Level English Literature in June 2009 was 28.3%.

Julie is a very able student indeed. She may well achieve a 7. She has flourished in the open structure of the IB English HL course which studies 15 texts without the narrow constraints of the assessment-driven A Level. But in asking for a 7 rather than a 6 in English, I feel that you are asking for more from her than you are asking from the other applicants. Is there any possibility of changing the offer so that a 7 is no longer required?

Best wishes

Mr DPC

IB Co-ordinator and HL English teacher

Dear Nick,

Progression to UK universities: Whilst there is no doubt of the IB Diploma's credibility with admissions tutors, some of our staff have heard anecdotal evidence of some IB students being given seemingly tougher offers than are made to A level students. Has any work been done comparing offers made to these two groups?

Regards

DPC

Dear DPC,

I know of no solid research, but there is a lot of experience to confirm that universities, especially Russell Group, are tough in the offers that they make for DP students. However, this is because of its power for differentiation at the top end, so they also make MORE offers. For example, Rene in King Williams says that the number of offers doubled when they went over to the IB. Thus A level offers are made on a more random basis, and some weaker students have success at highly competitive universities as a result. Whether or not this is a good thing for them is quite another matter!

Hope this helps

Nick

December 2009

Dear Nick

A student received an offer from Notional University (for Accounting and Finance) which is 2 or 3 points higher than the points requirement given by UCAS. Is that a normal procedure?

Thank you

DPC

Hi DPC,

It is not normal procedure, but it is common enough. Universities always say that their published offers are only minimum ones.

However, it is worth questioning it with Notional, as it could just be a mistake, or you might be able to argue it back down - no grade inflation, top grades hard to get etc.

Cheers

ULO’s advice to schools on applications to UCAS

Nick Lee: June 2010

Any advice about filling in the UCAS applications?

Predicted grades now need to be made with exact precision in the UCAS application. My advice is  to put a few words in to explain how confident you are about your predictions. For example, ‘Our prediction of 33 points for James is in the middle of the range that we expect, 32 -34 points.’ and ‘Whilst Karen is not a certain 7 for Maths Higher level, she is a highly competent mathematician, and if everything goes well this year she should get there.’
Universities hate schools to over-predict.
If you are a new school, or even heading for your second set of results, do not be afraid to state something like, ‘XXXXX is part of only our first (second) set of DP students, thus our teachers are not yet fully experienced in making predictions.’

Personal statements?

§ Diploma candidates should have plenty to say, especially if they took a full part in CAS. However, be warned that universities say that they like to see two thirds of what is written to state the student’s reason for choosing their course and their interest in their key subjects – generally the Higher levels.

The Reference

As there are still some people in UK universities who are unfamiliar with the DP, it is safest to put a sentence into the reference such as: This student is taking the IB Diploma Programme, which requires them to take six subjects from a range of subject areas. Three of these are taken at the more demanding Higher level; three at Standard level. In addition they take three Core components: a critical skills course called Theory of Knowledge, a 4000 word research essay called the Extended Essay, and extracurricular activities which come under the heading of Creativity, Action and Service (CAS).

Universities are interested to see transcripts. In the UK they are accustomed to seeing a ‘trail’ of grades – GCSE, AS modules, A2 modules. A transcript, especially one using the DP 1 – 7 scale, will reassure them, so find a way of indicating Pre-DP and first year of DP grades. UK universities like to see external exam results such as GCSEs and ASs, but they know full that most systems internationally do not have them.

After the results come out – 6 July to candidates

Many students will achieve their firm offer – congratulations!
Some will achieve only their insurance offer – could be worse.
Some will miss an offer by 1 or 2 points, maybe even 3 points. They should appeal to the university, with back-up from you. Universities are generally aware that a miss by a few points is less significant than a miss by one A level grade. There are 3 possibilities:
Immediate acceptance – hooray!

Have to wait until A level results come out – can lead to acceptance or rejection – depends on how A level students have done.
Rejection – sorry!

Some will miss their insurance offer by 3 or more points – into clearing, or retakes, or take a new direction.

Students who fail the Diploma

Selective universities are unlikely to look at them.
Recruiting universities may do so if the student has adequate scores at HL.

Final advice

Do not forget that whilst the UK applications system is incredibly centralised (through UCAS), the admissions process is incredibly decentralised, often through individual tutors for individual small courses in the universities.
As a result some unreasonable offers are still made.
However, please do not think that one unreasonable offer is typical of a whole university’s point of view.
What is more, do not be afraid to challenge an offer that you feel to be unreasonable. Do this politely but firmly – universities resist when they feel that schools are putting things too strongly.
And finally, even when universities moan or appear obtuse, remember that ultimately universities are interested in recruiting good students, and they know that the DP produces such students.

How do student results get to the universities?

1. Requests for Results:

From the Handbook of Procedures:

Requests for this service must be submitted on IBIS using the Request for results service form according to the deadlines below.

For students applying through UCAS, it is their UCAS ID number that is required.

2. However, it is reported in the UK that this system is fallible.

The system whereby DP grades reach universities: student chooses – school submits – IB computer talks to UCAS computer – UCAS computer talks to university computers – grades get to correct admissions person(s). Is ‘still not working effectively’ (Reading Uni). It is my advice that schools should print out the 6 July transcript of results, stamp it, and then send it to the university concerned. (Usually to the central office, as it is they who do the admin.)

Nick Lee

July 2011